my angel. this sunday, the biden agenda at risk. progressive democrats holding firm on spending bills. >> we're not leaving one part of the agenda behind and giving up on the idea of child care, paid leave, community college, health care. >> moderate democrats hoping to trim the cost. >> i understand people are concerned about the top line dollar amount. >> republicans vowing to stand in the way. >> this is government-run socialism. everyone of us is opposed to it. >> will democrats reach an agreement or fail and risk sinking the president's agenda? my guest, democratic senator cory booker of new jersey.

plus, the border crisis. >> i've seen desperate looks of people just trying to get processed. it's a completely dire situation. >> that encampment of migrant haitians finally clear. >> there are no longer any migrants in camp underneath the del rio bridge. >> questions remain about where the migrants were sent, their treatment and how to secure the border. i'll talk to homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas. plus, the booster rollout. >> i must do what i can to ensure the health of our nation. >> rochelle walensky overrules her own cdc panel and recommends pfizer boosters for workers at risk. new revelations about what president trump was doing on january 6th and the efforts being made at the trump white house at the time to overturn the results of the election. i'll talk to the authors of "peril," bob woodward and robert costa. joining me -- leanne called well

and meghan mccain, columnist for the dailymail.com. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning. when democrats won control of the white house, held the house and narrowly grabbed the senate in the georgia upset, they embraced very large goals that carried very large risks. president biden proposed a vast and ambitious progressive agenda can despite those narrow majority in congress, much of it packed into two bills, an infrastructure bill and a $3.5 trillion domestic spending bill. even as the president faces a series of challenges, democrats are fighting amongst themselves. progressives and moderates are arguing over the size and scope of the $3.5 trillion spending bill with each side threatening to sink it. john podesta who worked for

clinton and obama warned democrats, if they failed to reach agreement, it would signal a complete and utter failure of our democratic duty and reckless abdication of our responsibility. in other words, for democrats on this one, failure is not an option. at stake, simply the agenda of the president, of their party who desperately needs a win. democrats have little margin for error in the house and no margin for error in the senate and no clear path yet for making good on the president's promises. >> this is a process, and it's going to be up and down. that's why i don't look at the polls. >> president biden who ran on bringing competency back to washington is facing a string of setbacks, a chaotic withdrawal from afghanistan, migrant crisis at the border, the ongoing covid pandemic, and a brewing fight on capitol hill over his domestic agenda. the president's job approval

rating is now under water in most polls. >> remember i said it's going to take a year to deliver -- >> in del rio, texas, once packed with 15,000 migrants, mostly haitians, are now gone. on thursday the u.s. special envoy to haiti resigned in protest over the administration's inhumane counterproductive decision to deport thousands back to haiti. democrats express horror over images of border patrol agents chasing migrants on horses, swinging reins. >> the nation witnessed over the last 48 hours some of the most horrific things that we've seen. >> this is abhorrent. >> it is outrageous. >> i'm pissed. >> of course, i take responsibility. i'm president. to see people treated like they did, horses almost running them over and people being strapped, i promise you those people will pay. >> the president also faces a government shutdown. republicans are refusing to keep the government open and solvent,

threatening legislative sabotage as a political tactic. >> the debt ceiling will be raised as it always should be, but it will be raised by the democrats. >> mr. biden is attempting to negotiate a political truce between progressive and centrist democrats at odds over the size of his domestic spending package and the timing of a vote on a bipartisan infrastructure bill. house speaker nancy pelosi is promising a vote. >> this week -- >> but progressives are threatening to withhold their support until they have reassurances on the size of the proposed $3.5 trillion droe mess tick spending package. >> the reality is the bill coming up and not having votes is not something the speaker will be willing to do and we don't have the votes for it. >> it's still a shame, truly a shame that they're using that as a hostage to this. >> john podesta is calling on progressives to pare back their am missions, writing, the political reality is clear, we will not secure the full $3.5 trillion.

and podesta is warning centrists, you're either gecting both or neither. the prospect of neither is unconscionable. >> it's politically catastrophic if we don't move forward with these bills at this time. joining me is the democratic senator from new jersey, cory booker. senator booker, welcome back to "meet the press." >> it's great to be back on. >> good to have you in person. we're getting there. john podesta earlier this week wrote a memo -- basically sending a memo to both sides of this argument, moderates and progressives, you're going to have to come together. to progressives you'll going to have to face the reality that $3.5 trillion has to be pared back. do you concur? >> first of all, i don't like how this has been compared, progressives versus moderates. this is joe biden's bill. as he said in the oval office, i've never been a progressive. this is about seizing what is a once-in-a-generation opportunity, like those who built the canals and the railroads, like those who built the incredible eisenhower highway act.

if we miss this opportunity, every dollar we shrink it is a dollar not invested in our future which is unfortunate. so how this plays out, yeah, this is washington. i'm sure there's going to be some kind of compromise, but to me, the compromise, repairing our electrical grid or to compromise ending degree the only nation on the planet oevgt industrial nations that doesn't have paid family leave has its costs and is going to make america lose the boldness of the possibility of jumping forward as a nation. >> is there a sense here, though, that maybe -- there's an old say our parents used to say, your eyes are bigger than your stomach. were the political eyes bigger than the political reality? meaning you can only do as much as the 50th senator? >> that's 100% true. a lot of times we're losing sight of what we've already accomplished. i was with someone who said, voting rights, police reform, what's he done for the black

community? i said, what are you talking? we've cut child poverty 50%. the first president stepping up on black farmers, maternal mortality, getting lead pipes out of the ground. bind has racked up one of the greatest accomplishments. it's unfortunate people don't see that. if we do have a $3 trillion bill, a $2.5 trillion, i'm going to push for as big and bold as we can. it will be a historic investment in america. unlike president trump who racked up $8 trillion worth of debt. where did it go? mostly to the wealthiest in our nation. this president with the child tax credit has given the biggest middle-class tax cut in our country in generations, so i'm proud of what biden is doing. as we sat in the oval office, moderates were coming out, progressives were going in. he's doing shuttle diplomacy trying to land this. >> i guess the question is what's with the -- it looks like distrust from my perspective in that you wrote this letter along

with ten other senators to reinforce this idea, hey, don't bring up the bipartisan infrastructure bill in the house until the larger reconciliation bill is done. why can't you trust centrists or moderates or however we want to classify the folks that they'll be there, why not pass this on monday, put points on the score board for president biden, which right now helps the whole party and trust that the moderates will be there for this? >> i don't think it's a matter of trust. i've been around this town now for eight years, watching the best of intentions not manifest into something real. we were told we see this as one package. the president in the last week has said don't separate this. this is one package that we're looking at. so i just want to make sure -- this is not about a bunch of people who are battling it out in congress. this is about the american people. to get half of this done and leave mothers looking for affordable child care, americans who are looking for lower cost prescription drugs, to leave people like that on the wayside, families that need that child tax credit, to leave those folks on the wayside is unacceptable to me.

i've seen the best of intentions. it want a more real guarantee. >> you just don't believe it? word is not enough? >> no, again -- >> that's what it comes down to, basically saying joe manchin's word is not enough here. >> i've been looked in the eye by people in this town, they meant it sin is early, honor in them saying, we won't get this in the bill, but we'll get to it. well, sometimes that get to it turns out to be a year, the next congress, what have you. i'm sorry. when you have the leverage, you use the leverage. as long as it's not about ego or partisanship, but about the communities in this country. independents, 67% support what we're trying to do, republicans, if you break out the policies in these bills -- >> i want to get to that, breaking out the policies. >> yeah. >> i'm having flashbacks to health care. i hear the same thing. hey, the individual parts are really popular. >> yes. >> yes, they are.

should you be dealing with them in an individual piece here? i understand the situation of reconciliation. but you could be debating each part of this bill one at a time and you might actually get your message to the people that this isn't just a money grab. >> i'll tell you, i was a mayor during the health care debates, and it took years before suddenly the affordable care act, call it obamacare, but know the affordable act polls for every group, republicans, independents and democrats. again, there is movements and moments. this is a moment for america to go big. we didn't tell fdr, hey, break it into constituent parts. we didn't tell eisenhower. >> he didn't do it. that's the difference. both lbj and fdr did this in pieces, and they had bigger majorities. >> they had much bigger majorities. this is realpolitik. you know what it looks like for the next congress to move this big. people elected the president of

the united states to do bold, big things that will change america. this is our moment, we should seize it. >> during the presidential primaries, which you with part of, didn't the democratic voters essentially send the message, do what's possible, they didn't pick the progressive candidates? >> they picked a moderate guy who has a great track record for getting things done in the senate. that's why joe biden was joking with us in the white house. this isn't a progressive wish list. when you poll the parts with republicans, what he's doing is wildly popular are republican americans who want affordable college and day care. they want to make sure we're meeting the challenge of climate change. to characterize this as some -- remember, bernie sanders' first wish list was a $6 trillion package. this is significantly less than that. washington math, you've got to get upset about this. trump's -- $3 trillion was paid

for. this one is a zero bill. we're paying for the whole thing but we're using different math to make it sound bigger and more ornery. >> i don't want to let you go without asking your take on why police reform didn't come to fruition. tell scott said no because they could not let go of their push to defend our law enforcement. >> no. again, why are we descending into partisan name calling? these are two guys that sat down, worked very hard over nine months, got the fop to enforce a compromise bill. i never imagined we would get fop leadership to get on board. the international association of chiefs of police who said yes, our departments are in trouble. >> why do you think senator scott is using this language? you've been very diplomatic. he's not been very diplomatic.

>> i love him. i send him grace all the time. he's a friend of mine. the reality is i've gotten big things done in this town in this space with lindsey graham, chuck grassley, donald trump, we got big things done. >> do you think mcconnell didn't want him to cut this deal? do you think others above it were like, do the best you can? >> i promised the families we'll get things done. i do think this town has got to learn, all of us, to try to play the single blame game, i accept responsibility. we didn't get it done. i haven't stopped working. we need to lift the frequency of this town, especially on issues like this that all america knows. biggest demonstrations in this country's history for change. that want change -- >> it's quite notable, though, that you're not taking the politics here. senator scott is. just saying. >> again, i've learned a lot over the last eight years, and that's not the way to get things done. we're going to still see videotapes of unarmed african-americans getting

killed. we've had tragedies in this country we've all witnessed. we've got to start getting things done. the wonderful thing about it is police leaders understand it as well. we've got to get back to the table eventually and get things done. >> senator booker, thanks for coming in. appreciate it. >> thank you very much. on friday, homeland security secretary alejandro mayorkas announced all the haitian migrants who had gathered under a bridge in del rio had been cleared from the area. more than 12,000 allowed to request asylum. 8,000 returned to mexico voluntarily, and as of friday, 2,000 were expelled to haiti. the images of white border patrol agents drew sharp criticism. senator mayorkas, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thanks for having me, chuck. >> let me start with the decision to send 2,000 haitian migrants back to haiti. in hindsight, was that a

mistake? >> no, that isn't. that's an exercise of a public health imperative. we're in the midst of a pandemic. the centers for disease control has a title 42 authority that we exercise to protect the migrants themselves, to protect the local communities, our personnel, and the american public. the pandemic is not behind us. title 42 is a public health policy, not an immigration policy. >> these folks didn't come from haiti. they came from other places in south america. should they have been sent somewhere else? >> we're working with other countries, chile, brazil, other countries in south america and the region. these are haitian nationals. some of them don't have documents from the countries from which they just left. they are subject to removal. they are subject to title 42 expulsion, and we work with the countries who receive them. in haiti specifically, we've contributed about $5.5 million to ensure there's safe and humane resettlement there. >> some of these folks hadn't been there in over five years. >> that is indeed the case, and they're haitian nationals and

they're subject to removal to a country that is able to receive them. >> let me ask you about title 42. is that an authority you still want to have? >> that's an authority that the centers for disease control have determined to still be necessary given where we are in the arc of the pandemic. >> i want to ask you about the behavior of border patrol. clearly a lot of democrats are upset. the vice president did something that i had never seen before with a cabinet member. they put out essentially a readout of a call she had with you. it seemed to say -- the implication was that it was a dressing down of sorts. how did you respond to her about the performance of border patrol? >> so the performance of border patrol is the subject of an investigation and the facts of that investigation will be determinative. i think the entire american public correctly and necessarily were horrified by what the images suggested.

they conjured up such a dark past that we have not entirely put behind us. >> did president biden go too far in saying those folks were going to pay? are they guilty before an investigation? >> absolutely not. the investigation is independent. we know how to conduct an independent investigation. i think the president echoed the sentiments of the public in terms of what those images suggest. >> there is some democrats in this town that think cbp is a rogue agency. >> i couldn't disagree more vehemently. i'm intensely and immensely proud of the members of the u.s. customs and border protection. in del rio, i saw them act heroically. what those images suggest does not reflect who cbp is, who we are as a department nor who we are as a country. >> the border patrol unit says using horseback, that is a training that they get. are they right?

>> oh, the horse patrol serves an in credibly important function. horses can traverse terrain that might not otherwise be covered. >> sure. >> in fact, horses are often used to not only assess a situation, but to actually help people in distress. cbp personnel have saved many lives on horseback. >> so those images, you think, are something -- do you think those images misconstrued their actions? do you think it's going turn out their actions are on the up and up? >> the facts will be adduced in the investigation. the investigation will determine the facts. it's an independent one. in fact, i directed that the leadership of office direct the investigation to ensure its both integrity and quality. >> you, i know, are getting a lot of heat from memberers from both sides of the aisle.

congressman henry cuellar who is a democrat representing the border down there. here is what he said. >> president obama and secretary jeh johnson they treated the migrants with respect and dignity, but at the same time they followed the law. if they're not supposed to be here, then, with all due respect, you've got to sent them back. >> you were a deputy in that administration too. so you've been at this. what is the same and what is different compared to the surges you dealt with in dhs in '14 and '15 versus today? >> this is not new. remember in the summer of 2014 we had a great number of unaccompanied children arrive here. there were people that called on us to do more than we did, people called on us to do things differently than we did. getting hit from both sides in the matter of immigration is no surprise. we're in the epicenter of the country's divide regrettably.

we do what the law requires, what our humanitarian mission requires. >> but do we have enough resources down there to deal with the surge currently happening? we thought it was seasonal. turns out it's not seasonal this year. >> we have an incredible ability to deploy resources to meet the challenges that we face, and we actually evidenced that quite powerfully in del rio, texas. in less than a week we addressed a population of 15,000 there, and now there are none. >> do you accept the idea we have a crisis at the border? >> i am focused on mission, chuck, and the challenges that we face and our ability to meet those challenges. i'm incredibly impressed with the men and whim who do so. >> do you think we have the ability to meet those challenges right now or does the law have to be changed. >> we meet the challenges but working in a completely broken system. as a matter of fact, there's unanimity in the country and in washington. i've never heard anyone say that the laws in immigration are well structured. >> if we get more haitian migrants, is the only solution

going to be that they'll likely be deported back to haiti? >> no. as you mentioned as the very outset, chuck, there are a number of them expelled under the title 42 authority, the public health authority. there are others placed in immigration court proceedings and have the ability to make their claims to an immigration judge. >> are you at all concerned this will serve as a magnet for more migrants to come? >> i don't think that's the case at all. in fact, 8,000 haitians returned to mexico over the past week. >> do you think that's because we're sending people back to haiti? >> i can't speak for them. i do think they made that yourny chrk we admonished them not to make, to not put their lives and their funds in the hands of smugglers who exploit them. >> secretary mayokas, appreciate you coming on and sharing the administration's perspective. >> thank you, chuck. when we come back, we're learning more about what all the president's men were doing to help donald trump overturn the election and stay in power.

bob woodward and robert costa of "the washington post" join me next. growing up in a little red house, on the edge of a forest in norway, there were three things my family encouraged: kindness, honesty and hard work. over time, i've come to add a fourth: be curious. be curious about the world around us, and then go. go with an open heart, and you will find inspiration anew. viking. exploring the world in comfort.

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we've been learning more about the backstory to the january 6th insurrection and all the events around it. the biden white house is considering handing over information about what president trump was doing while the capitol was being ransacked. the house committee investigating january 6th issued subpoenas to four trump allies including last chief of staff mark meadows and on again, off again political adviser steve bannon, asking them to hand over records and appear for depositions. in the new book "peril," we learned a lawyer working for president trump wrote a member outlining a way for vice president pence to invalidate the results of the election, essentially sending it back to the house, and handing the presidency back to president trump. bob woodward and robert costa join me now. bob, i want to start with a big picture question, which is, did you guys chronicle an aborted coup? >> there were attempts. of course, the core of trump's argument is the election was stolen and what we found in our

work is two of the biggest trump allies, lindsey graham and senator lee from utah, this is the core of trump's support in the senate, investigated these claims and discovered that there was absolutely nothing there, and what you see trump and his lawyers doing these kind of legal somersaults, that just hold no water with trump's allies. you can't convince lindsey graham and mike lee that the election was stolen or that there was some fraud means what we found, a weakness in the case, not just a weakness but zero evidence. >> robert, there were so many near misses here. it want to look at this excerpt you have between a conversation

between president trump and vice president pence. he says, if these people say you have the power, would you want to do it, trump asks of pence. i wouldn't want any one person to have that authority. pence said, look, i've read this and i don't see a way to do it. it feels as if -- if we weren't sure the role mike pence played, but was he the lone bulwark here? >> the story of january 6th is not just that day. it's the days before, all the movement afoot in the oval office. on january 4th, john eastman, the author of the memo you cited here, in that meeting, which was the ultimate temptation of power, a president to a vice president the next day, january 5th, vice president pence, who spent four years trying do the bidding politically for president trump, he said he didn't have the constitutional ability to act.

this was the brink of a constitutional crisis on the eve of an insurrection. >> had mike lee indicated support for this pathway, do you think the vice president might have changed his mind? how important is that? >> it was critical, as bob said, for senator graham, senator lee and other conservatives, even former vice president dan quayle saying you can't do anything here, vice president pence, except count the votes. there's so many historical counterfactuals, what could have happened if pence went in a different direction and just walked away. >> bob, the roles of lindsey graham and mark meadows here, at times it looked like they were sort of enabling president trump's wishes on this election, and at times they seemed to want to steer him away from this. is that the case? how would you characterize their roles? >> there's a lot of ambivalence here, but we quote conversations between senator graham and trump in which lindsey graham said to

trump, you eff'd up your presidency at one point just a couple months ago. trump hung up on him and called him back a day later and lindsey graham said, i would have hung up, too. the core conclusion that graham has is you lost a close election. face it. notch it back. now we have trump out calling senator lee and senator graham, somehow they folded. trump is attacking them because they found the truth, and the truth is this was not a stolen election. >> wasn't even that close. >> wasn't even close. but we felt an obligation to look at that, and that's how we found these memos that were written. giuliani wrote all these memos to lindsey graham saying all kinds of fraudulent votes, kids

voted, dead people voted. then they looked at this, it's not there. >> debunked, debunked, debunked. you've covered president trump since the beginning of sort of that staircase, robert. do you think he really believes he won, or do you think he really believes -- i feel like the truth showed up in one of the quotes in the book when he said, if i don't keep fighting, i'm lose my base. he thinks his political base is because he fights the establishment, not because of any policy? >> i've learned covering president trump and covering politics, it doesn't really matter sometimes what people think. it's what they do. to assume nothing. in 2015 a lot of people said donald trump won't run, he'll never win. he won. he lost in 2020. he wants power back. our reporting in the book shows these rallies don't get a ton of coverage. he's there with this tra

tillian-type language, whipping up people across the country. it's not just his personality as the story. he's influencing the republican party across the country to now run for office, to be secretaries of state, to be election officials. 2022 -- >> he's bending the party to his will, isn't he? >> certainly. >> bob, another question i have for you since we noted, the puns were necessary. all the president's men. in some ways you put all the books into one, including this one. trumpian versus nixonian. define the two. >> trump has -- it's what is the presidency about for the average voter out there, and it is evaporating because trump is staking everything on this stolen election claim. we were able to get information about the then cia director gina

haspel, someone who's been very versatile, an expert on instability, unstable regimes. she concluded in november that this -- what is this? a right wing coup, that president trump is like a child, a 6-year-old having a temper tantrum? >> so does this go beyond nixonian? to be trumpian is worse than to be nixonian. >> well, we were in a dangerous national security moment. so you know, if things had gone crazy with china or russia or iran, all of -- we discovered these countries were on alert, and that's the edge of war and miscommunication, a pretty frightening time. >> as bob and i have talked about, when nixon gets on the helicopter in '74, he goes away

to california and stays there. not the same dynamic this time with president trump. >> there's a reason why i think you have an aptly-named book called "peril." we're not in peril now. when we come back, progressive democrats very suggestion the moderates. progrey suggestion the moderates

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welcome back. panel is ■4ere. amy walter publisher of welcome back. panel is here. amy walter publisher of "the cook political report." nbc news capitol hill correspondent leigh ann caldwell, eddie glaude jr. from princeton university and meghan mccain, columnist for the daily press. great to have a mccain back on "meet the press." >> thank you. >> leigh ann, this is your turf. i'm sure you caught the number. cory booker said whether it's $3 trillion or 2.5 -- the number is moving, what's going to happen this week? >> the number is moving. the reason it's moving is they know they can't get $3.5 trillion. that has been made clear. but there's problems with the

number, too, and that is that people like senator joe manchin who have said they won't support $3.5 trillion also won't give a specific number, and so speaker pelosi is trying to negotiation legislation with the moderates, with the progressives, and with people like senator joe manchin in the senate who aren't specific on what they want. so it's a rubik's cube. it's a venn diagram and every sort of crazy mathematical thing they're trying to fit together. it's extremely complicated. my sources say they don't know how it's going to play out. >> is the paing that reyum theory in here at all? cory booker didn't say i don't trust, but he described a situation where he doesn't trust. >> i know we're not supposed to do this, but before we came on, we were chatting about this.

we were reminded of the number of times the house feels like they're hung out to dry. they pass something, whether it's climate, back in the '90s, the btu tax, only to have -- >> this has happened to house republicans, too, right? >> that's fair. it happened with the health care bill. they took the big vote and watched the senate go. to me where we are is so much driven by that phrase that mike tyson once had. everybody has a plan until you get punched in the mouth. right? the plan back in the spring was, by this point we would be free from covid, the economy would be roaring back, and, of course, the momentum that that would bring to this legislative process. democrats would come together. this would be not as big of a lift as it is right now. now what we have is a president who is desperate for his party to give him momentum, right? he's not bringing it to the table. >> meghan, i want you to play a reporter here for us because you may have the best sense of

kyrsten sinema. i know you have a good personal relationship. that's the frustration democrats have. they don't know what joe manchin wants. they don't know what his bottom line is or what her bottom line is. how would you describe it? >> politically in arizona that's why people like her so much. anecdotally, conservatives in my life really like her because she's holding the line for conservatives in a lot of ways. the question i always have is for people like joe manchin, if it's not him, it's going to be a republican. so this distaste and outward hostility towards moderates in the democratic party surprises me. i also was shocked by seeing senator booker talking about openly this distrust between progressives and moderates, how the democratic party ultimately threads the needle i don't know. i will say president biden ran on being a moderate, as you said. he ran and won with the help of independents, centrists, trump-wary republicans. he's not governing as one. the build back better agenda is

the most progressive modern agenda of all time, up to $5 trillion and not polling well. i'm confused on doubling down on something cratering in the polls right now. >> eddie, i'm curious, should president biden be leaning harder? are you surprised they're not leaning harder? i would think he would need a signing ceremony yesterday. >> absolutely. president biden understood he was in a moment where he needed to be a transformative president. it feels, chuck, like we're in a political groundhog day. we just experienced the pandemic. we're still in it. 700,000 americans are dead. the pandemic revealed -- it was like a blue dye into the social and political body of the united states. it revealed all sorts of troubles across every aspect of our society, and our response bears a striking resemblance to the very logic that informed how we've governed for the last 40 years. i understand this is a political show. we have to talk about the

politics of it all. >> we're stuck. >> but, damn, you know? i mean, it seems to me we're talking about a figure, a number, 3.5. >> right. >> america's in trouble. what are politicians doing, but haggling over -- it seems the elements of an ideology that have revealed itself to be bankrupt. >> senator sinema, i have reporting that says out of this big reconciliation bill, the thing that is most important to her is climate change, and why that -- so if things get scaled back, she wants climate change proposals to be included. that gets back to the zen diagram because that's just what senator manchin doesn't like. >> the talking point, it's zero cost. okay. it's all going to be paid for. >> to me that's the other big

challenge. as you pointed out with senator booker, there's a lot of discussion about the price tag, not a lot of discussion about the policy and how democrats allowed this entire debate to be driven by -- is it 3.5, 2.5, whatever. rather than what's the policy, what's the name of this bill? we keep calling it reconciliation. we keep calling it the trillion dollar social package. >> at least health care had a name like obamacare. at least you care. it was about health care. >> when senator booker said you take the individual pieces, people like it. okay. but that's not what you're talking about right now. >> ultimately, until covid is resolved, i think the politics for the president is going to be difficult. the covid confusion doesn't help them. >> at all. i still don't know if i'm supposed to get a booster or not. the only thing i would piggyback on what you're saying, amy, the americans may not understand this bill entirely, but they do understand inflation, they understand what happened in app began.

they understand that gas prices are going up. they understand christmas toys will be more expensive for their kids. that will be a deal breaker. i believe your cook report showed virginia now as to-up state. >> covid, covid, covid. the reason your christmas presents will be more expensive, supply chain. >> supply chain. every 43 seconds, an american dies from covid. it seems there's stuff on the table for us to deal with. >> all right. can't resolve this now. up next, the fight over abortion is heading to the supreme court. how americans feel about abortion rights and the court right now when we come back. n 5g - i can't believe you got me this! - yes, verizon is giving one to everyone when they trade in their old or damaged phone. - oh! so like every sister can get this? - yeah. - every aluminum siding installer? - why not? - every doula? - they would have to! every customer, new and old, can get iphone 13 pro on us. because everyone deserves better.

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this week the united states supreme court announced it will hear arguments on the mississippi law that would ban abortions after the first 15 weeks of pregnancy. at the same time the court is seeing a major shift in voter attitudes about it. in fact, as abortion and the supreme court get conflated, you're going to see the poll numbers change for the court. in fact, already you're starting to see -- i want to show you something from july to september. as you can see, before abortion, we knew abortion was going to be front and center in the court. both republicans and democrats had decent approval ratings of the supreme court, the right happy with some of the business decisions. the left happy with some of the social decisions, same-sex marriage and things like that. as you can see, as abortion heats up, you see the partisan divide develop when it comes to the court. let's go to the issue of abortion. new polling from our friends at fox, future of roe v. wade, overturn it or let it stand?

65%, the highest number they found. look at it by party. a majority of republicans in this fox poll said let roe v. wade stand, and, of course, a large majority of democrats. now, that's the big picture of roe v. wade. you start to get in a little bit of the details, abortion ban after 15 weeks and you can see the partisan divides grow a bit more. overall there's a plurality in favor of a ban of abortion. 34% oppose. a large chunk undesigned this issue. you see the party line differences here on this. this really is in some ways a line of demarcation when it comes to public opinion on abortion. of course, all that means what? to both parties and especially democrats, the choice of the next supreme court justice is being very important. democrats now caring more about the next choice than republicans. when we come back, even after arizona's phony election audit found president trump lost the state again, mr. trump insists it proves he won. what is he doing? calling for more so-called

audits. stay with us.

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we are back. the arizona audit shows, meghan -- >> he lost by more. >> president trump hasn't taken it very well. last night in georgia he seem god after any republicans that stood in his way. let me play a little sound. >> raffensperger. raffensperger.

i think there's something wrong with him. your rhino governor, brian kemp, who has been a complete disaster on election integrity. governor ducey was horrible. he was missing in action. we didn't get any help from mitch mcconnell. >> mitch mcconnell, brian kemp, doug ducey, this conspiracy camp reaches deep. >> i don't know how to talk about this because it is conspiratorial insanity from the bowels of the internet. there's a segment of the republican party that believe it. i know people who think the election was stolen. it's the big lie people are believing. it's a huge challenge for the party going forward. as mitch mcconnell recently said, i believe he called president trump a horse that is out to pasture and should stay there or a thoroughbred that should stay there. if you look at polling, against people like governor desantis, president trump doesn't have the stranglehold on the party he once did. i think it's college educated women -- sorry.

>> i kind of agree you're right, except the party, eddie, the party leaders act as if trump has all of this power. >> absolutely. >> she's not wrong. there's polling indicating -- please go away, but they're afraid to say it publicly. >> in some ways, governor desantis, his popularity has to do with he's a version of trump in some ways, in particular sorts of ways, but i think you're absolutely right. the base of the party is in lockstep with trump. what i heard in trump's remarks last night in georgia was, if we don't win, somebody stole it. if the results aren't consistent with the way in which i think they should be, then someone stole it. we heard it from elder. seems like it's going to be a strategy across the republican party. >> leigh ann, there's not a republican, other than adam kinzinger and liz cheney, that feels comfortable going after him publicly, right? >> yeah, that's absolutely right. the base of the party is still -- even though trump is not the same factor he was when he was president, the base of the party

is still beholden to him and they're rabid about him. and republicans, especially in the house, know that. they're afraid of primaries. afraid of being on the end of trump's bullying because they know that will hurt them in their gerrymandered districts where they're likely to win -- they're going to win the general election. it's the primaries that matter, and that's what they're worried about. >> to me this has been the danger all along for republicans. it's the sense that don't anger him. appease him a little bit. it will go away. it will get better. >> has appeasing worked? >> it's not working. i don't like that it's been called an audit. that puts an air of legitimacy to it. it was not legitimate. the legitimate forces, the people whose job is to say these elections were fair, have ruled. that should be the end of it. and so i don't think the point is to say we want to take every election we lose and say we won.

the point is to undermine the integrity of the entire process. once that's gone, i don't want to be the alarmist, but it is very dangerous. >> that brings me to this robert kagan column in the "washington post" that everybody has been talking about. the republican party is a zombie party, going through the motions of governing in pursuit of traditional republican goals. the party's main, if not sole purpose today, though, is to enable trump's efforts to ensure his return to power. >> nothing galvanizes right now than seeing what happens in afghanistan, seeing this giant spending package. the thing that can unite me with the biggest maga person in the world is the build back better progressive agenda. so i do think while it's uncouth and impolite to say in society

you would be okay havinging in do with president trump, there are people who will vote for anything except what's happening right now. i think of president trump as godzilla under the water and the sequel could come. there are people that will put up a very good fight against him. he's not the king maker he once was as we've seen in primaries across the country. >> the fascinating part about what you just said, it's the feature of the argument that kagan is making. there's a loyalty to the national party, there's a desire to own the libs, to define once over and against those folks that you do not want to govern. so you're willing to make a certain kind of choice, a kind of faustian bargain that unleashed this person into our body politic. what's fascinating, i think it's a bit alarmist. i disagree with the way he tries to disentangle the republican party from trumpism, but he's onto something.

this is calling into question the very foundation. if the people do not trust the process, we can't -- >> we have nothing. >> what are close elections going to look like in november of '22? >> that's the thing. it's not about the past election anymore. they're still talking about the past election, but trying to delegitimize future elections. >> i think that's the concern we all have. it's sort of like, boy, i fear -- i used to love a close election. now i fear the impact of what unpacking that would be. thank you all. before we go, i want to let you know we're kicking off our third season of "meet the press reports" where we deep dive into one subject. you can see new episodes on nbc news now on thursday at 9:00 p.m. eastern and on peacock. today you can see all eight episodes of season two from 2:00 to 6:00 p.m. on nbc news now today. that'll all we have for today. thank you for watching. we'll be back next week. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."